Algebra and the Pointlessness of The Whole Damn Thing By sociologistAndrewHacker
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800lb WerePanda

08/21/2012, 18:24:50




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I agree, why force american kids to learn algebra? Leave the subject to kids of other nations.

http://educationrealist.wordpress.com/2012/08/19/algebra-and-the-pointlessness-of-the-whole-damn-thing/

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Algebra and the Pointlessness of The Whole Damn Thing

The whole algebra debate kicked off by Hacker’s algebra essay has…..well, if not depressed me, then at least enervated me.

A recap:

Hacker:

We shouldn’t make everyone take algebra. No one needs algebra anyway; we never really use it. Statistics would be much more useful. Algebra is the primary obstacle to high school success; millions of kids are failing because they can’t manage this course. If we just allowed students to have an easier time in high school, more of them would graduate successfully and go on to college.

Outraged Opposition:

Algebra is essential to college success and “real life” and one of many obstacles to high school success. No one is happy with the current state of affairs, but it’s clear that kids aren’t learning algebra because their teachers suck, particularly in elementary school. We need to teach math better in the lower grades, rather than lower our standards. Besides, the corollary to “not everyone should take algebra” is “some people should take algebra” and just how are you planning to divide up those teams? (Examples: Dan Willingham, Dropout Nation)

Judicious Analysis:

Sigh. Guys, this is really a debate about tracking, you know? And no one wants to go there. While it’s true that algebra really isn’t necessary for college, colleges use success in advanced math as a convenient sorting mechanism. Besides, once we say algebra isn’t necessary, where do we stop? Literature? Biology? Chemistry? But without doubt, Hacker is right in part. Did I say that no one wants to go there? Or just hint it really, really loudly?
Examples: Dana Goldstein, Justin Baeder Iand II.

Voldemort Support:

Well, of course not everyone should take algebra, trig, or calculus. Or advanced literature. Or science. Not everyone has the cognitive ability or the interest. We should have a richer and more flexible curriculum, allowing anyone with the interest to take whatever classes they like with the understanding that not all choices lead to college and that outcomes probably won’t have the racial distributions we’d all prefer to see. Oh, and while we’re at it, we should be reviewing our immigration policies because it’s pretty clear that our country doesn’t need cheap labor right now.

Hacker, Outraged Opposition and Judicious Analysis to Voldemort Support:

SHUT UP, RACIST!

So really, what else is left to say? The Judicious Analysis essays I linked above were the strongest by far, particularly Justin Baeder II.

Instead, I’m going to revisit a chart I updated from the last time I posted it:

These are California’s math scores by grade and subject, the percentage scoring basic/proficient or higher on the CST. Algebra entry points differ, so the two higher (and slightly longer) of the four short lines are the percentages of “advanced” students with those scores—those who took algebra in 7th or 8th grade. The lower, shortest lines represent the scores of students who began algebra in 9th grade.

Notice that advanced students don’t match the performance of the entire elementary school population through 5th grade. Notice, too, that the percentage of advanced students scoring proficient or higher is just around half of the population. When I just considered algebra students who began in 8th grade (see link above), the percentage never tops 50. Notice that around 40% of the kids who started algebra in 9th grade achieved basic or higher.

NAEP scores show the same thing—4th grade math scores have risen, while 12th grade scores stay flat. In fact, Daniel Willingham, who declares above that we’re doing a bad job at teaching elementary math, was considerably more sanguine about teacher quality back in December, citing the improved elementary school math performance shown in the NAEP. So the strong elementary school performance, coupled with a huge dropoff in advanced math, is not unique to California.

These numbers, on the surface, don’t support the conventional wisdom about math performance: namely, that elementary school teachers need improvement and that the seeds of our students’ failure in higher math starts in the lower grades. Elementary students are doing quite well. It’s only in advanced math, when the teachers are much more knowledgeable, with higher SAT scores and tougher credentialling tests, that student performance starts to decline dramatically.

What these numbers do suggest is that as math gets harder, fewer and fewer students achieve mastery, or anything near it. . What they suggest, really, is that math knowledge doesn’t advance in a linear fashion. Shocking news, I know. We have all forgotten the Great Wisdom of Barbie.

Break it down by race and the percentages vary, but not the pattern. I skipped Asians, because California tracks Asians by subcategory, and life’s too short. I’m going to go right out on a limb and predict that Asians did a bit better than whites.

(Note: I know it’s weird that in all cases, 9th graders in general math have nearly the same percentages as 9th graders in algebra, but it’s easily confirmed: whites, blacks, Hispanics).

Whites in the standard math track perform as well as advanced math blacks and just a bit worse than advanced track Hispanics. Sixty to seventy percent of blacks and Hispanics on the standard track fail to achieve a “basic” score.

Some people are wondering how poverty affects these results, I’m sure. Let’s check.

Hey! Look at that! The achievement gap disappears!

Just kidding. This chart shows the results of blacks and Hispanics who are NOT economically disadvantaged and whites who ARE economically disadvantaged. You can see it on the legend.

So that’s how to make the achievement gap disappear: compare low income whites to middle class or higher blacks and Hispanics and hey, presto.

And that’s all the charts for today. I’m not detail-oriented, and massaged this all in Excel. You can do your own noodling here. Let me know if I made any major errors. The 2012 results should be out in a couple weeks.

Anyway. With numbers like these, it’s hard not to just see this entire debate as insanely pointless. In California, at least, tens of thousands of high school kids are sitting in math classes that they don’t understand, feeling useless, understanding deep in their bones that education has nothing to offer them. Meanwhile, well-meaning people who have never spent an hour of their lives trying to explain advanced math concepts to the lower to middle section of the cognitive scale pontificate about teacher ability, statistics vs. algebra, college for everyone, and other useless fantasies that they are allowed to engage in because until our low performers represent the wide diversity of our country to perfection, no one’s going to ruin a career by pointing out that this a pipe dream. And of course, while they’re engaging in these fantasies, they’ll blame teachers, or poverty, or curriculum, or parents, or the kids, for the fact that their dreams aren’t reality.

If we could just get whites and Asians to do a lot worse, no one would argue about the absurdity of sending everyone to college.

Until then, everyone will divert themselves by engaging in this debate—which, like many kids stuck in the hell of unfair expectations, will go nowhere.

 






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I always scratched my head while solving word problems Chairman Mao
Replying to: Algebra and the Pointlessness of The Whole Damn Thing By sociologistAndrewHacker -- 800lb WerePanda Archive


Khammani

08/21/2012, 19:16:48




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Frankly, me don't like math that much, but it's OK just give me time then I would finally be able to solve them.  You must be good at math in general since you have a degree in math right?

 






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Kham,the univers,you and I don't exist
Replying to: I always scratched my head while solving word problems Chairman Mao -- Khammani Archive


800lb WerePanda

08/21/2012, 19:58:28




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From an old post of mine. I wrote it before I watched the movie matrix:

Is our physical universe real? I always suspect it is not. Could it be that a long long time ago, humans were defeated in a calamitous war by an advanced species(terrestrial or extra-terrestrial) and our ancestors were biologically exterminated but allowed a simulated existence inside a supercomputer as cybernetic entities with a certain amount of free will? Our and our ancestors' senses were input by a complicated SW that linked all the minds/memories of such 'living' entities. The HW and SW were so advanced that we can't really tell the difference. But as the 'human' population grew, the system became overloaded and ran the risk of being exposed of its true nature by the 'humans'. So those super-beings imposed certain limitations on the 'physical laws' and our biology:
 

1)Upper limit of speed: It ease the task of the interaction SW because we our senses, experience and boundary will be limited.
 

2)Only the central spot of our retina has high concentration of optical nerves: Also eases the data flow the SW will handle.
 

3)Heisenberg's Uncertainty principle: we could not measure certain conjugate pairs of important data precisely. A clever plot because with the 'advent' of 'technology' , we were bounded to overload the data flow.
 

4)'Divine intervention' in the forms of plagues, wars, religious pogroms, asteroid impacts and 'natural' disasters: The numbers of 'living entities' is regulated.
 

How are we going to defeat the system and recreate our original mode of existence? But the time we could accomplish that, we probably will find out that the real universe is also fake: It is also a simulacrum created by yet an even more advanced species who defeated our former enemy/exterminators.






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God/yahweh/allah is the master of the universe-time-space, I completely agree
Replying to: Kham,the univers,you and I don't exist -- 800lb WerePanda Archive


800lb WerePanda

08/21/2012, 20:33:09




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But how about before the last big bang? 'Time' before time? Existence before creation?

The universe before the last big bang, if there was any, had  different sets of physical laws.Even 'time' might have a different meaning; like one can go back in 'time' easily and became your own biological father.

I had a dream. I met an old fatherly figure with scaled skin, a majestic reptilod being who kindly went through briefly the cosmic history with me:

"Before the last big bang, the universe was a tranquil beautiful place with silicon-based treeoids, reptiloids,caninoids,insectoids living happily together under the benign rule of him, the reptiloid god. Space travel was easily because inertial was voided after a prayer to the reptiloid super being. Then one of reptile god's lieutenants, by the name yahweh, tired of his silicon existence, had his evil  ambition to usurp the divine throne. With his dark mind out bred a race of quad limbed carbon based violent humanoids who sworn allegiance to him. The reptile god's planets fell one by one and during the nightfall war, yahweh triggered a big bang to wipe out the remnant reptile force and hence also brought forth the present universe. The old reptile god self-exiled himself to an obscure corner of the new universe yahweh wouldn't bother

To add insult to defeat, reptiles and canines were declared unkosher/haram

 






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I tihnk someone's been reading too much science fiction
Replying to: God/yahweh/allah is the master of the universe-time-space, I completely agree -- 800lb WerePanda Archive


-Corsair-

08/24/2012, 06:01:07




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or maybe... David Icke?






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No, actually the no. of Sci-fi I read is relative small...
Replying to: I tihnk someone's been reading too much science fiction -- -Corsair- Archive


800lb WerePanda

08/24/2012, 07:07:53




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Let me see, ender';s game,asimov's foundation series, a few of H.G Wells, arthur clark's, robert heinlein's, dune series,vonnegut's,just the usual stuffs. LOTR isn't sci-fi and it's probably a faggotry propaganda novel, so is star wars which eulogised pedopfillia

 

I really forget who David Icke is exactly  though I came across that name once a while






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So the reptilian overlords are actually the good guys????
Replying to: God/yahweh/allah is the master of the universe-time-space, I completely agree -- 800lb WerePanda Archive


Strangelove

08/21/2012, 22:06:28




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"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face......forever" 1984, George Orwell

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Reptiles aren't mammals like dogs and cats,I doubt they like humans.
Replying to: So the reptilian overlords are actually the good guys???? -- Strangelove Archive


ChairmanMaoColmX

08/21/2012, 22:33:01




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I did not know you are serious about this thing to even have a dream. Do you
Replying to: God/yahweh/allah is the master of the universe-time-space, I completely agree -- 800lb WerePanda Archive


Khammani

08/21/2012, 20:48:46




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believe in Life after Death?

 

Pop quiz: Does life exist after death?

A University of California, Riverside philosophy professor, John Martin Fischer, has been awarded a three-year, $5 million grant by the John Templeton Foundation to study just this topic—and yes, students can take his class.

Fischer noted in an email to Yahoo News, "Both I and my post-doc, Benjamin Mitchell-Yellin, will teach related classes over the next three years. I have frequently taught classes on death, immortality, and the meaning of life both at Yale University and UC Riverside."

So what's the meaning of life? More on that in a moment.

Fischer noted, "We'll be open both to studying religious and non-religious views about immortality. One thing that we'll study is whether human beings would want to live forever: would it be boring? Would it lose its meaning and beauty and urgency? Does death give meaning to life?"

According to the university's website announcing the grant award, many anecdotal reports of the afterlife abound, but there has been "no comprehensive and rigorous, scientific study of global reports about near-death and other experiences, or of how belief in immortality influences human behavior." The research will look at a range of phenomena, including heaven, hell, purgatory, and karma. The grant is the largest ever awarded to a humanities professor at UC Riverside, and one of the largest given to an individual at the university.

Fischer said in a statement, "We will be very careful in documenting near-death experiences and other phenomena, trying to figure out if these offer plausible glimpses of an afterlife or are biologically induced illusions," Fischer said. "Our approach will be uncompromisingly scientifically rigorous. We're not going to spend money to study alien-abduction reports."

The grant will also fund two conferences to discuss the findings. Said UC Riverside Chancellor Timothy P. White, Fischer's research "takes a universal concern and subjects it to rigorous examination to sift fact from fiction."

The Immortality Project, as it is called, will solicit research proposals from eminent scientists, philosophers and theologians whose work "will be reviewed by respected leaders in their fields and published in academic and popular journals."

The research will also delve into cultural aspects of the afterlife. For example, there are reports of millions of Americans seeing a tunnel with a bright light at the end. In Japan, reports often find the individual tending a garden.

The professor added that the academic research could include a range of issues, like "heaven and hell: If we are material beings, how can we exist in heaven, where we would not have physical bodies (or not of the sort we have here)?

"There is a lot of interest in near-death experiences. We can carefully catalog them and look into whether there are patterns. There has already been a lot of work on this. Perhaps some cross-cultural studies would be helpful.

"We'll also be open to studying the relationship between beliefs in afterlife and behavior--moral behavior and crime rates."

Sounds like the kind of research topics that many college students have already spent hours pondering. As for the meaning of life? The professor says check back in three years.

More coverage from

 






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Life after death could mean cybernetical existence inside god's computer
Replying to: I did not know you are serious about this thing to even have a dream. Do you -- Khammani Archive


800lb WerePanda

08/21/2012, 20:54:01




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cybernetic existence or 'real' existence mean no difference to god






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What is SW and HW Chairman Mao? God has a computer too?
Replying to: Life after death could mean cybernetical existence inside god's computer -- 800lb WerePanda Archive


Khammani

08/21/2012, 22:00:34




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Kham,come to your senses.100s of millions sent him e-mails(prayers)everyday
Replying to: What is SW and HW Chairman Mao? God has a computer too? -- Khammani Archive


ChairmanMaoColmX

08/21/2012, 22:31:34




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Kham[Oh BTW, brother edl can give some good inputs on this subject.]
Replying to: Kham,the univers,you and I don't exist -- 800lb WerePanda Archive


Khammani

08/21/2012, 20:16:35




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He is a great Buddhist Philosopher and I truly respect him.

 






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Jesus! This is too complicated to be bothered with Chairman Mao.
Replying to: Kham,the univers,you and I don't exist -- 800lb WerePanda Archive


Khammani

08/21/2012, 20:12:14




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I am more worry about how I will look a decade from now since every decade I look worser and worser. Can you see the pictures of me in my 30s and now walking in my 40s.  You on the one hand wonder about how we are going to defeat the system and recreate our original mode of existence? I can't even figure out why I don't have much hair left anymore. Is our physical universe real or not only the so-called Supreme being would know.

 

 

 

 

 


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Math is an art form
Replying to: I always scratched my head while solving word problems Chairman Mao -- Khammani Archive


ChairmanMaoColmX

08/21/2012, 19:38:59




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One of the more intersting ps of math I learned is Von Neumann's construction of natural numbers(numbers for counting, say 1,2,3 .....) from empty sets. Yes, he constructed math from emptiness if u want me to explain it to a layman.

Von Neumann was a great genius besides being a great mathematician:

1)He invented/coinvented the theory of digital computer

2)Put quantum mechanics on abstract math footing(out of understanding of the average engineers)

3)He was also a mathematical economist and chemist

He died at the age of 53. He was a hungarian jew.






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Almost everything involves math then physics and chemistry ect.,,,
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Khammani

08/21/2012, 19:56:13




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