Ever since India developed nuclear weapons and the means to deliver them, India has automatically become a threat to China. It is evident that Chinese do consider the Indians a threat as shown by their concern over India's improving diplomatic, economic and scientific relations with countries like Russia America and Japan. India's expanding and a potential blue water navy could negate the role of the PLAN in the Indian ocean. To my understanding India is also targeting the South China Sea.
Economic and technological growths are something that at best will cause envy, although not bring Indian and Chinese to war. Although India's increasing conventional and nuclear forces could trigger a dangerous arms race in the Asian continent. So therefore India could potentially trigger another cold war in Asia. As India maximises and modernising its forces China may have to react doing the same to ensure that India does not exceed or equalise with it in terms of military power. India's nuclear doctrine that envisions a nuclear triad comprising of air sea and land forces have already provoked a strong reaction from China(and Pakistan). In turn if China maximises and modernises its defence it will provoke strong reaction from Japan and its other potential enemies. Which will either join in the arms race or seek outside assistance. In the case of Japan it is quite likely that they will get the US involved. So having the power to create such a dangerous scene in Asia, India does play a major role in Asia and is a threat to Asian security either directly or indirectly.

We have a far superior government structure, that is world acclaimed, our democratic government gives us more edge in scientific and cultural progress. It gives us more freedom of speech more diverse ideas and secularism. China does not have a future its consistent oppression against its people and the restriction of free thought will always cause great discontent within and bring it to the brink of anarchy. This is evident from a recent survey that shown that only 9% of Chinese were happy with their standard of living, where as the democracies in this world(except for Russia) were the most happiest Communists is a tried and tested model that has failed time after time, it is only a matter of time when it fails in China too. The biggest advantage of a communist mode of government is the excellent productivity and military power, although the disadvantage is the awful progression in scientific research. In this era of scientific growth, China will struggle to succeed with its communist regime and will have to resort once again, to stealing technologies- This time from India.

What do you think?? Are we really at the brink of anarchy?

To my limited understanding, PLAN presence in the indian ocean is like a 30 second commercial break. Its always easy to chase ghosts and phantoms in the high seas...

2)To my understanding India is also targeting the South China Sea.

Yeah with Vietnam...that pretty much sums it up. And unless india can construct more deep water sea port on its eastern coastlines i wont be too worried.

3)We have a far superior government structure, that is world acclaimed, our democratic government gives us more edge in scientific and cultural
progress. It gives us more freedom of speech more diverse ideas and secularism. China does not have a future its consistent oppression against its people and the restriction of free thought will always cause great discontent within and bring it to the brink of anarchy.

I never knew they gave democracy a noble prize for encouraging humanity. In china nowadays, unless you plan to go political or start up a cult, you can do pretty much anything you damn pleases.

4)This is evident from a recent survey that shown that only 9% of Chinese were happy with their standard of living, where as the democracies in this world(except for Russia) were the most happiest.

oh its a "recent survey"...and i guess he speaks on behalf of 500million indians who lives below the poverty line...and whats wrong with the russians?

5)The biggest advantage of a communist mode of government is the excellent productivity and military power, although the disadvantage is the awful progression in scientific research. In this era of scientific growth, China will struggle to succeed with its communist regime and will have to resort once again, to stealing technologies- This time from India.

This guy must be talking to a dummy or is one. Where did india get the majority of its weapons? Answer=the russians. When did they develop them? When the russkies are still commies! And which coutry does it follow in its design of indeginous weapons? the russians! Well if what he says is true than that partly explains why india is so awful in r&d and tech. And india obviously never learnt productivity and military power from the russians well when they still think lenin & castro digs.

In ten years China will probably be the nation most nations look up to and try to copy. India i'm afraid well can't say much on that...

Long Live China.

Regards

Yes it does. Money has a hell of a lot to do with success. When was the last time a poor nation or individual was referred to as successful? Society and people are materialistic and the measure of one's achievment in society usually has a lot to do with how much a person has. You, being american, should know that especially well.

"The Chinese people have always been and forever will be poor."

That's an absolutely brilliant statement to make. Tell me, do you use your amazing powers at predicting the future for good or for evil? How do the other super friends feel about your abilities?

"They will continue to farm the country side or scavage a meager existance in the cities."

Although, China is certainly not rich, it is definitely getting less "meager" day by day. I think China is heading down the path taken by other Chinese entities (such as Hong Kong) who are now quite wealthy.

"This is unless democratic reforms take place within the government. Only then can China can be truely free..."

I have to say Indians have to be the most negative and pessimistic people on this planet. No where else do you see such low confidence and shame for their country.
Do Brit's ask the question "Why is Britain inferior to USA" or does Pakistani's as the question "Why is Pakistan inferior to India" or contrary to your topic do "Chinese ask the question "Why is India better at IT"

Your minds are still so overwhelmed with the past colonial era that you lack any real confidence. For gods sake!!! stop moaning now. Look at America that was also undo colonial rule, are they still crying about it?? do we see article upon article about their present colonial past. Only in India do we still prolong that colonial past we experienced, only In India do we value the foreigner more than our native's. Change your attitude folks or just give India to the Whiteman, they will take better care of it. Do you know why these primitive Islamic armies are proving heavy against a technologically superior India!! They have love for their own kind, they cherish their mother land and their dreams they are determined and don't give a damn about what others think. Then we have India, who wants to impress others, who does not mind if it loses a few hundred citizens and a few hundred troops. The government is a joke, where they deliberately show India as a poor country to get a few billion dollars in aid.
You're a mess, you, your country and your people. What you need is another messiah that can guide your troubled souls into the light.. In short, you need a miracle.

I have been to India 5-6 times for 4 months or so each time round and no.. It was not a rich mans mansion it was a middle classed family living in a flat that barely could accommodate an entire family.
I saw on the streets, public toilets but no body was willing to use them. I saw trash cans to place litter in but again no body seemed to use them. So whose fault is this, your countries or your peoples!! Its YOU!! yes, you Indians.. Who are always looking for someone to blame but themselves. Its funny how when you see a white man in your country you jaws drop..
You do not buy nappies you let the kids excrete on the floor then you just wipe it off with a towel which you use to wipe the floor clean later, is this the countries fault???
You set fireworks off while holding them in your hand, then you lose an eye, an arm a leg or die, Is this the countries fault??. I use to be sympathetic to these type of people before experiencing it first hand. Then suddenly in those movies where the poor are treated unequal by the rich, made me think. Why is this movie showing the poor as the good side!! Its these poor people that refuse to send their children to school that refuse to use government provided trash can or toilets. Its these people that beg on the streets because they can't bother to work!!!

You are the people that comprise this country, without its people its just territory. Bad people make bad countries.. And what is India.. decide for yourself??

I try to protect you Indians , I fight for you, I go against every negative comment against you, but in my mind I know there is an element of truth in it.

Its funny how you all ridicule yourself, just yesterday I saw a programme on the top A classed films made in India. One was "Jai Santoshi ma" and the director admitted that technically this film was absolutely pathetic(That you could even see the stage curtains moving), but because Indians are so illiterate they accept it. Women were going into the cinema with no shoes on, they were treating it like a pilgrimage. I hate to see my India in this state, you paint a ridiculous picture of your country. Others think you are primates.
All you can say is "Mera desh mahan" and then when its not working out for you, "Mera desh bohat boora hai".
To get into any university there you need to be very intelligent and/or very wealthy. If your not, then you have to settle with whatever you get. Whereas here in UK, you can get into higher careers by even failing. You can be average and find yourself to become a software writer or architect. Indians are not doing other Indians favours, your just making life difficult for each other. You cannot blame everything on your country, you are part of it.

There was once this painter who was working on a portrait of this royal women. Not wanting to disappoint her. He decided to have this portrait displayed in the national art museum with a red marker aside it and a note reading, " Please mark with the red marker provided any part that you think needs improvement" When he returned, he was horrified to see his portrait covered with hundreds of red marks, on the nose, on the eyes, on the cheeks, the hair the whole picture. The poor artist was depressed at this and the next day redisplayed a copy at the museum again with a notepad and pen aside it and a note reading, "Please write down on the notepad provided how I could improve this portrait". At the end of the day when the artist returned he saw that the notepad was completely empty.
The point im making. People are quick to criticise something but cannot give solutions, so instead of complaining about the filth on the road why don't you just pick it up and do yourself, your people and your country a favour.

I unfortunately still disagree with you that China does not consider India a threat. Maybe the people of PRC do not see India as a threat, because they are not informed. They see US as a threat because of the propaganda spread by communist leaders this is the restriction of free thinking, which I believe will bring your country closer to anarchy. (Check the thread "Why is India inferior to China" in the history and current affairs forum *Which I strongly protest against*). On an international power scale India does pose a grave threat even with a significant difference in nuclear weapons which as I have already said may not be common mans knowledge but the government and its entities are well aware of- if they are not, then they are incompetent as a government (Which IMO are ne way).
Why should this difference in nuclear weapons not make a great difference? In the nuclear weapon equation there is a minimum deterrent and anything above that is not necessary. For arguments sake if India has the ability to destroy ½ of China with her minimum deterrent and China has the stockpile to destroy all of India many times over, what will China gain?? There is nothing to gain in such a nuclear war, there is a lot to lose, India is destroyed but in turn China loses all its economic cities, millions and millions of its people and its defence forces and establishments. --- That is theoretical

In reality all these nuclear weapons going off will trigger a nuclear winter and destroy all life on the planet. All can be as little as 7 or 10. It is this minimum deterrent that India is pursuing today and with its acquisition there will be no need to build more nuclear weapons and the fact that PRC has a far greater number will become irrelevant, or even the technology in nuclear weapons because even a 1kt nuclear device can cause drastic damage, we have shown that we can cause 50 times that already and according to Indian scientists we can quadruple that too. So numbers are meaningless in this nuclear weapon equation, its is like Infinity + 1, which is still infinity.

2nd point: It is my understanding that Indian-Russian relations are very intense and that in a case where China would want to acquire military hardware India could leverage Russia into not negotiating with China. As in the past where Russia has provided the Chinese with a few SU-30's at much higher costs than it would for India. In the recent deal where India has acquired the ability to licence produce the Su-30MKIs at HAL (Producing about 140 in 17 years or 8-9 a year) Russia offered us this deal at a very cheap price of $3 billion dollars - that's about $20 million a jet plus give a major boaster to India's ability in developing jets. So If China wanted something from Russia it would be much expensive than it would be for India.

3rd point: PRC will have to wait a long time(will seem long to us) before it can compete with US economically or with conventional military. Will the showdown happen?? Well depends if China even exists then, like I said that with its regime it will always be on the brink of anarchy also it may change its aggressive posture and become friendly then it would not be much of a "showdown". Only time can tell, who will be the powers of the future. But with the present overwhelming lead by US it maybe truth that US will hold on to it for a long long time.

4rth point: Arms races are different from wars but they can result in wars, as it is clearly evident from the last cold war. Where Russia and America almost clashed several times and almost went nuclear. The possibility still exists between India and China.

5th point: If India and China continue this zero sum game then its better for both, although it is probably inevitable that either will want to exercise their power in the Indian ocean. With India's expanding and potential blue water navy China will either have to admit defeat in that arena and allow India to control the Indian ocean and the South China sea. Or contend with India with a possibility of a clash, a limited battle, a full fledged war and when nothing is working for either side, a nuclear war - Then this world may see Armageddon.

*He not sound like he hate China, he jus providing - analysis*

now i admit the PRC has some of the same human rights problems and we need some dramatic changes as well. but it would be safe to assume that in theory, democracy is better than totalitarianism, but so far, i don't think the indian government (who supposedly embrace democracy) have done any better than one that embraces (supposedly) communist dictatorship.

1. oppression: i did not state that the indian government have INTENTIONALLY oppressed any particular ethnic group. however, there does seem to be instances where a minority population is persecuted by angry mobs, (IE dalits' rights are limited, violence against christians, etc), and it APPEARS that the indian government has not done enough to STOP this behavior (a situation similiar to that in Indonesia) since we constantly hear of it happening again & again. we could blame that on the western media (exaggeration of the facts), however, there can be no smoke without fire, they must have SOME basis, SOME incident to build upon. now i would go as far as to admit that there are probably instances where the PRC government has went as far as making it a POLICY to persecute certain groups (IE closing down unregistered christian churches & jailing dissidents), however, whether its government policy or not, the results are the same: when minorities (whether ethnical or political) are allowed to be unjustly persecuted, the whole of society suffers. and that brings us back to the original post that started this discussion...

2. comparisons of government: the original post which started this thread consisted of a piece of commentary which was supposedly posted by a BR forum member claims that India has a superior form of government when compared to the PRC. he made this judgement on that basis that india is a democracy, it supports and protects the freedoms of the people. while the PRC is a dictatorship where minorities & those with unpopular views are persecuted. thus, he claimed, that india's open society will allow it to progress further economically & scientifically than the PRC. to a certain degree, i actually AGREE with him. i do think that it would be practical for the PRC to eventually adopt a form of government with democratic practices. however, i attempted to point out that the same situations and incidents (human rights abuses, persecutions) where india has suffered from the same problems that PRC has. and it resulted in the same consequences: peoples' rights are violated, unjust violence has occurred, the development and progress of the society is hindered.

therefore, if he's going to compare governments solely by that standard, then india isn't much better than the PRC, as he have claimed.

3. the use of media: this isn't a very revelent or widely discussed issue on this thread, but i noticed that whenever an organization (such as amnesty int.) denounces india or the PRC concerning human rights abuses, we both try to discredit that particular source of information. however, i think its very hypocritical of both of us to use these sources (AI, human rights watch, etc) as evidence to denounce each other.

IMHO, i guess we should stop talking about "who's worse off" and start discussing how both of us can IMPROVE the situation we're in.

i guess went too far on that last post of my & i take the responsibility for it, i imagine it would've started quite a big flame war if it was posted in BR. thank you for your involvement and providing us a balanced point of view.

RIGHTS?
Does India protect her own citizens rights? U may say yes b'coz you are DEMOCRATIC.... but I would say NO... India cannot even provide enough food for its ppl!!(Is this human rights? By not providng and ensuring enough food for ya ppl, U yourself have violated human rights!!)

This is just food! What about a place to stay? If U all check the current life quality indexes(sorry i forogt the link) China is one times higher than india by comparison. Does Inida provide a place safe and good enough for its ppl to stay( this is already violating the basic human right s of its ppl... shelter, food and clothing.)

But to be fair, this is going to be the last time that I'll refute BR forum posts' arguments point by point.

1) Superiority of Indian democracy: rampant corruption, partisan warfare, continued discrimination of racial, religious, and caste minorities.

2) Superiority of democracy in progress:

a) Economy: PRC's economy is at least 3 times larger than that of India. PRC has a 200 billion foreign trade reserve, India, almost to zilch.

b) backwardness of Indian defense/research programs. Examples, a 20+ yrs old Arjun MBT program that has yet to produce any results, hence the reliance on Russian T-90s; LCA; ATV; ADS; etc.

You can have your so call 'democratic freedom' for all i care, but I doubt a nation where half of the population is illiterate and that every year there's not enough food to feed its population shows that this nation is not as superior as it is claimed.

On the other hand, PRC has its flaws too; all nations do.

In short, I think we should not use this forum to talk about India's 'democratic superiority,' but rather China's problems and solutions.

I, sir, choose the former.

The above statement is not quite right. Any country can be creative, including India and China. Like or not, the
following are from the book: The Genius of China, 3,000 Years of Science, Discovery and Invention, by Robert Temple,
1998.

"Francis Bacon had selected three inventions, paper and printing, gunpowder, and the magnetic compass, which
had done more, he thought, than any religious conviction, or any astrological influence, or any conqueror's
achievements, to transform completely the modern world and mark it off from antiquity and the Middle Ages. He
regarded the origins of these inventions as 'obscure and inglorious' and he died without ever knowing that all of
them were Chinese." Great British Scientist and Author Dr. Joseph Needham

"One of the greatest untold secrets of history is that the 'modern world' in which we live is a unique synthesis of
Chinese and Western ingredients. Possibly more than half of the basic inventions and discoveries upon which the
'modern world' rests come from China" Robert Temple

(1)Freedom: Legal prostitution. Next time you go there, enjoy.
Men can rape women or disfigure them without punishment.
Did you watch Operah show on ABC?

(2)Religious zest and endurance: It's a glory for a girl to become a
nun, and all her hair will be removed manually---nobody
can endure this kind of pain except Indians.

(3)Believes in fate not science: About half of them are illiterate.

(4)Dream workers: Those who have dream got the future.